KeriJane
Apr 10, 08:21 AM
You do know that Windows had an App Store before OS X, but it got axed due to it being badly implemented which resulted in lack of custom? All they are doing there is returning and improving one of their own features, not copying Apple.
Hi roadbloc
Ummm....
In post 19 of this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=12360982&postcount=19), I wasn't intending to imply that MS was copying the App store. I was merely trying to point out the hilarity of such a concept. In a misguided attempt at being nice, I even tried to allow that MS might be the victim of cruel IT departments and may not be wholly responsible for the extreme inadequacy of their Enterprise products.
Now that you mention it, I've reconsidered.
It's both "almost too hilarious a concept to think about" AND just another cheap ripoff of Apple yet again!
Just because they made an abortive attempt previously doesn't mean that they're not trying to jump on Apple's coat-tails once again.
Well, maybe not so much "jumping on Apple's coat-tails" but rather... MS is trying to blatantly copy Apple once again so as to beat them to death with their own invention or successful refinement of an existing idea.
I still feel that just thinking about the concept of an MS App Store could do away with most anti-depression drugs at the cost of exhaustion and fainting from excessive laughter.
See? Even I can admit SOME good may yet come of MS's chicanery! ;)
Have Fun,
Keri
Hi roadbloc
Ummm....
In post 19 of this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=12360982&postcount=19), I wasn't intending to imply that MS was copying the App store. I was merely trying to point out the hilarity of such a concept. In a misguided attempt at being nice, I even tried to allow that MS might be the victim of cruel IT departments and may not be wholly responsible for the extreme inadequacy of their Enterprise products.
Now that you mention it, I've reconsidered.
It's both "almost too hilarious a concept to think about" AND just another cheap ripoff of Apple yet again!
Just because they made an abortive attempt previously doesn't mean that they're not trying to jump on Apple's coat-tails once again.
Well, maybe not so much "jumping on Apple's coat-tails" but rather... MS is trying to blatantly copy Apple once again so as to beat them to death with their own invention or successful refinement of an existing idea.
I still feel that just thinking about the concept of an MS App Store could do away with most anti-depression drugs at the cost of exhaustion and fainting from excessive laughter.
See? Even I can admit SOME good may yet come of MS's chicanery! ;)
Have Fun,
Keri
dejo
Apr 27, 11:17 AM
I still think it would help us if you described, at a high-level, what it is you are trying to accomplish.
From what I can gather you want a countdown timer: a label that shows the seconds remaining, along with two buttons, one to start the countdown and one to cancel it. After the Start button is tapped, the label will start showing the seconds counting down. If the Cancel button is tapped, the countdown stops and is reset, so that if you tap Start again it begins back at 60 seconds. Is that correct?
If so, I think you need to be aware that a countdown-timer and NSTimer are very different things.
From what I can gather you want a countdown timer: a label that shows the seconds remaining, along with two buttons, one to start the countdown and one to cancel it. After the Start button is tapped, the label will start showing the seconds counting down. If the Cancel button is tapped, the countdown stops and is reset, so that if you tap Start again it begins back at 60 seconds. Is that correct?
If so, I think you need to be aware that a countdown-timer and NSTimer are very different things.
stoid
Aug 8, 07:20 AM
Sorry to say this, but you're simplifying things too much. Just because a monitor has the same size/resolution, doesn't mean that the LCD sources are identical.
FYI, Apple is using LCDs from Lg.Philips, Dell's LCDs come from Samsung. As a matter of fact, the 30" from Samsung for example is an exact copy of the Lg.Philips panel that they developed for Apple: same module dimensions (even fixation holes), electrical interface, etc.
Because Dell is doing copy-paste, some of the specs are indeed identical. However, Apple displays use IPS (in-plane switching) LCD technology, while Samsung uses PVA (patterned vertical alignment). Consequence of this is that optical specs are slightly different:
- higher brightness for Dell (because of higher LCD transmission of PVA)
- higher contrast for Dell (but only perpendicular: contrast decreases very rapidly if you look off-axis at PVA-based panels)
- superior color stability for Apple (large color shift with viewing angle for PVA, especially for grey tones)
The latter characteristic is why Apple chooses for Lg.Philips, and why Apple displays are better for graphical applications, despite the slightly lower specifications on paper.
Be careful! wnurse may not have gotten a nap, and can get very cranky when people point out differences between Dell and Apple monitors. ;)
Seriously though, wnurse, lighten up and chill out! :cool:
FYI, Apple is using LCDs from Lg.Philips, Dell's LCDs come from Samsung. As a matter of fact, the 30" from Samsung for example is an exact copy of the Lg.Philips panel that they developed for Apple: same module dimensions (even fixation holes), electrical interface, etc.
Because Dell is doing copy-paste, some of the specs are indeed identical. However, Apple displays use IPS (in-plane switching) LCD technology, while Samsung uses PVA (patterned vertical alignment). Consequence of this is that optical specs are slightly different:
- higher brightness for Dell (because of higher LCD transmission of PVA)
- higher contrast for Dell (but only perpendicular: contrast decreases very rapidly if you look off-axis at PVA-based panels)
- superior color stability for Apple (large color shift with viewing angle for PVA, especially for grey tones)
The latter characteristic is why Apple chooses for Lg.Philips, and why Apple displays are better for graphical applications, despite the slightly lower specifications on paper.
Be careful! wnurse may not have gotten a nap, and can get very cranky when people point out differences between Dell and Apple monitors. ;)
Seriously though, wnurse, lighten up and chill out! :cool:
quigleybc
Sep 9, 01:10 AM
I agree with you quigley.
Hip-Hop is very difficult to perform live. No matter how good they sound on the album live just isn't the same.
I thought Kanye did great with what he had though. And he is definately the best thing to happen to Hip-Hop since the Chronic 2001 was released.
Agreed, since the Chronic..
Great Locations think alike. (Van)
Too many haters on here sometimes.
I wasn't a huge fan of Kanye with the first album, but this new one is something special I think
One of those albums that comes along and changes sh#t
In between, I gotta bring up Outkast as well, just groups/artists that take things in different directions
Which is why I saw a connection with him performing at the event.
It didn't seem very rehearsed for one thing. And the dj wasn't really cuttin in and out on time, but Kanye was shakin it like James Brown. He was really dancing hard...kind of funny at times actually, and I think him dancing so hard also affected his vocals..
Anyway, Kanye west is a good thing...IMO
and I was just kidding about metallica they're aiiight :D
Hip-Hop is very difficult to perform live. No matter how good they sound on the album live just isn't the same.
I thought Kanye did great with what he had though. And he is definately the best thing to happen to Hip-Hop since the Chronic 2001 was released.
Agreed, since the Chronic..
Great Locations think alike. (Van)
Too many haters on here sometimes.
I wasn't a huge fan of Kanye with the first album, but this new one is something special I think
One of those albums that comes along and changes sh#t
In between, I gotta bring up Outkast as well, just groups/artists that take things in different directions
Which is why I saw a connection with him performing at the event.
It didn't seem very rehearsed for one thing. And the dj wasn't really cuttin in and out on time, but Kanye was shakin it like James Brown. He was really dancing hard...kind of funny at times actually, and I think him dancing so hard also affected his vocals..
Anyway, Kanye west is a good thing...IMO
and I was just kidding about metallica they're aiiight :D
more...
TheNewDude
Nov 8, 02:09 PM
Yeah, pre-ordered mine at Best Buy. Will go there tomorrow and pick up my copy!! A busy weekend coming up!!!
SevenInchScrew
Apr 22, 11:20 AM
If you don't like reading pro-Apple posts, then you can put me on ignore or hang out on Neowin.
The thing is, we all know you are pro-Apple. That is fine. Everyone can like whatever they want. It is your incessant need to come into any and EVERY thread about their competition just to bash and mud-sling that gets old and makes people hate you. I like Android, but you don't see me going into every single thread on MR about the iPhone bashing it and spreading FUD because of that.
You don't like Windows, MS, Android, Google, RIM, etc, and think Apple is way better. We get it. How about you make a new thread. It could be ["Things I hate" by *LTD*], where you talk ALL about the things that bug you with the competition, and why Apple's version of everything is so much better. That way you, hopefully, won't come in and derail these other threads, where you clearly have nothing of substance to add.
The thing is, we all know you are pro-Apple. That is fine. Everyone can like whatever they want. It is your incessant need to come into any and EVERY thread about their competition just to bash and mud-sling that gets old and makes people hate you. I like Android, but you don't see me going into every single thread on MR about the iPhone bashing it and spreading FUD because of that.
You don't like Windows, MS, Android, Google, RIM, etc, and think Apple is way better. We get it. How about you make a new thread. It could be ["Things I hate" by *LTD*], where you talk ALL about the things that bug you with the competition, and why Apple's version of everything is so much better. That way you, hopefully, won't come in and derail these other threads, where you clearly have nothing of substance to add.
more...
miketcool
Oct 19, 10:05 AM
1.5% woo hoo!! Thats quite a climb!
superstrikertwo
Apr 6, 08:11 PM
How can we compare a Dev Preview to something that isn't even public yet? :rolleyes:
Fixed.
Fixed.
more...
JRoDDz
Mar 17, 08:53 AM
Bull. I had a girlfriend in high school get fired from OfficeMax for being $100 off where she had been working for almost a year. Unfortunately some guy came in that day, paid for two computers and a printer with $100 bills (total was something like $2500, as this was the late 90's). She counted it twice, but apparently one was missed. Corporate policy stated that she could only be off by less than $5 at the end of her shift.
She didn't pocket the money and her manager knew that she didn't, but she still lost her job. Company policy.
Would I like to get an iPad for half price? Absolutely, but ONLY if it was because the company was selling it for half price. I pay what I am supposed to pay.
It's ok. The original poster isn't worried about his fellow man. He's just happy that he got a discounted iPad. This is the reason this country is going down the crapper. Nobody cares about anyone else. Stick it to the man. yeah so what if this kid got fired. It's all about me me me. :(
She didn't pocket the money and her manager knew that she didn't, but she still lost her job. Company policy.
Would I like to get an iPad for half price? Absolutely, but ONLY if it was because the company was selling it for half price. I pay what I am supposed to pay.
It's ok. The original poster isn't worried about his fellow man. He's just happy that he got a discounted iPad. This is the reason this country is going down the crapper. Nobody cares about anyone else. Stick it to the man. yeah so what if this kid got fired. It's all about me me me. :(
cbrain
Sep 24, 02:33 PM
I've just watched the video. Gizmodo really should be ashamed of themselves for that, it just isn't funny. It's disgusting.
more...
t19880821
Sep 22, 02:01 PM
Actually, this is really immature.
I understand where Giz is coming from about how they're not the protectors of companies, blah blah blah. That's right.. press don't protect companies, and they also don't harm them. "Disrupting" is in the category of harming a company.
So.. it's okay then to turn of people's computers everytime they look at Giz? I mean.. they can just turn them back on, right?
Giz is trying to make a statement, but what they fail to do is show some goddamn respect. How in hell are their writers supposed to get into any more events if they make it public that they have no respect at all for these companies?
I understand where Giz is coming from about how they're not the protectors of companies, blah blah blah. That's right.. press don't protect companies, and they also don't harm them. "Disrupting" is in the category of harming a company.
So.. it's okay then to turn of people's computers everytime they look at Giz? I mean.. they can just turn them back on, right?
Giz is trying to make a statement, but what they fail to do is show some goddamn respect. How in hell are their writers supposed to get into any more events if they make it public that they have no respect at all for these companies?
-aggie-
Jul 21, 10:56 AM
Well, if they treat their customers this way then what do they expect?
Imagine an icecream stand, selling icecream cones "revolutionarily" cylindrical in shape and everyone's icecream fell out the bottom. Then, they remedy this by going "ok, we'll give you all a small piece of paper to glue to the bottom that will sort of fix the problem."
I know. Damn you, Apple, for giving me a better phone than my 3G!! Damn you!!!
Imagine an icecream stand, selling icecream cones "revolutionarily" cylindrical in shape and everyone's icecream fell out the bottom. Then, they remedy this by going "ok, we'll give you all a small piece of paper to glue to the bottom that will sort of fix the problem."
I know. Damn you, Apple, for giving me a better phone than my 3G!! Damn you!!!
more...
p0intblank
Oct 3, 01:18 PM
A confirmation is always nice. :)
How on earth is this being voted as Negative? Also what's up with the last option in the poll? That depresses me! :(
How on earth is this being voted as Negative? Also what's up with the last option in the poll? That depresses me! :(
MykullMyerz
Mar 17, 08:36 AM
OMG you people are completely overreacting. Do you know how often cashiers make mistakes such as this? If every store fired every cashier that came up short on their register at least once in their retail career, their would probably no cashiers. It's a common mistake that happens more often than you think and most stores just take it as a lost and go about business as usual. So, unless the cashier is completely incompetent and this incident is a repeat occurrence, I doubt he'll get fired.
more...
ucfgrad93
Mar 17, 01:14 AM
Haaaaaaa just shared a launch day story, and the majority of you would have hauled ass with iPad in hand for the price I paid. Haters lmfao
No, I wouldn't have. Unlike you, I don't enjoy ripping people off.
No, I wouldn't have. Unlike you, I don't enjoy ripping people off.
cult hero
Mar 25, 05:54 PM
I really *like* the fact that the OS X and iOS groups seem to be talking to each other and sharing ideas with each other, rather than being in squabbling little camps that snipe at each other like you see at Microsoft.
Me too. The trouble I see here is that every time OS X adopts some interface concept or anything else from iOS there is this ridiculous frenzy that goes like this: "OH NOES!!!!!!111111one APPLE IS GONNA LOCK DOWN APPS!"
Which, they COULD do but I just don't think they're that stupid. (If they do it's back to Linux for me.)
Me too. The trouble I see here is that every time OS X adopts some interface concept or anything else from iOS there is this ridiculous frenzy that goes like this: "OH NOES!!!!!!111111one APPLE IS GONNA LOCK DOWN APPS!"
Which, they COULD do but I just don't think they're that stupid. (If they do it's back to Linux for me.)
more...
gleepskip
Jan 5, 03:15 PM
The agony.
3 days, 19 hours, 45 minutes left.
3 days, 19 hours, 45 minutes left.
Arcady
Oct 6, 10:44 PM
I don't understand people who point a video camera at their TV and record it, then upload that video to YouTube. If they can figure out how to connect the camera to the computer, why can't they figure out how to connect the TV?
elppa
Jan 27, 06:42 PM
Well, I'll grade myself:
[1] Lot's of puff about how well Apple is doing. Good news gospel on the iPhone. Pie Charts and bar charts, some early mention of sales figures.
Well we got this 1/1
[2] Leopard talk � Apple haven't had an expo since the Leopard launch. Expect some interesting apps (3rd parties, almost certainly some mention of Office '08, possibly Bento) and talk of the capabilities and technologies in the new OS. We may get an update (10.5.2) and in it some surprises (whether it be QT 8, Java 6) or some iPhone technologies (error correction when typing) intergrated). Also look out for news on a how users will be exposed to the resolution independent UI. This may be particually impotant if number 5 on the list is being launch. Apple also said they'd be ready by '08.
Apple talked about Leopard - 2/2
Mention of Office '08 - 3/3
Other 3rd Party Apps - 3/4
Talk through technologies and capabilities of Leopard - 3/5
10.5.2 Update - 3/6
QT 8 - 3/7
Java 6 - 3/8
iPhone technologies in Leopard - 3/9
Res independence - 3/10
[3] Beetles on iTunes (at last!). This will lead into the the Music section of the keynote.
Not a whisper - 3/11
[3] iTunes Movie Rentals and iTunes 8 (UPDATE: Looks more likely to be a 7.6 release now.). Talk of the interplay between hardware-software, leading to the introduction of the:
Movie Rentals - 4/12
New iTunes - 5/13
[2] new TV + Apple Remote (in metal and using a similar clickwheel to the nano (you heard it here first)). Not sure were TV is headed, so I will not make too many predictions on this.
New Tv - 6/14
Same old white, plastic remote - 7/15
[5] MacBook Nano (possibly left to the end). It may have a pixel density considerably higher than current machines.
A bit more on this from here:
Quote:
[1] The drive will be a bus powered FW800 Super Drive. And you will pay for it, it won't be included in the box because:
[i] Some may have existing external burners they would rather use.
[ii] It would make the box bigger. Bigger, heavier boxes means more expensive shipping.
[iii] Apple will get to make even more money on each sale from people buying the matching optical drive.
[2] The ultra portable will retail for < $1600 (�1400/�1800) and be called the MacBook Nano.
[3] The MBP will get a facelift and a new keyboard to match the MacBook/new Apple Keyboard
And back to this one:
They gave it a better name, no nano - 7/16
Same pixel density as regular MacBooks - 7/18
No Firewire, let only FW 800 on the Air - 7/19
Drive not included - 8/20
US price - 8/21
UK price - 9/22
EU price - 10/23
New MacBook Pro - 10/24
That seems like enough. I have a sneaky suspicsion we may see a new app, because Apple likes writing Apps and they haven't done a new Applications in a long time (apart from Numbers). Apps are important to Apple because they drive the adoption of hardware.
New App - 10/25
Here's what we may not see:
[1] iPhone SDK, I think this may get a special event at another time.
[2] Any pro products (Mac Pro, Cinema displays) (UPDATE: Well we've already had the Mac Pro, so this is technically a correct prediction � even before the expo even begins!).
No iPhone SDK - 11/26
No pro products - 12/261
So all in all a fairly decent 46% success. As is normally the case I tend to hope for too much new. Some of my predictions I completely stand behind and I think we will see them another day. This year I believe we will see:
- Res Independence UI being exposed to user via System Preferences.
- Java 6 on OS X.
- New Apple remote
- New keyboard on MacBook Pro
- A new application from Apple.
[1] Lot's of puff about how well Apple is doing. Good news gospel on the iPhone. Pie Charts and bar charts, some early mention of sales figures.
Well we got this 1/1
[2] Leopard talk � Apple haven't had an expo since the Leopard launch. Expect some interesting apps (3rd parties, almost certainly some mention of Office '08, possibly Bento) and talk of the capabilities and technologies in the new OS. We may get an update (10.5.2) and in it some surprises (whether it be QT 8, Java 6) or some iPhone technologies (error correction when typing) intergrated). Also look out for news on a how users will be exposed to the resolution independent UI. This may be particually impotant if number 5 on the list is being launch. Apple also said they'd be ready by '08.
Apple talked about Leopard - 2/2
Mention of Office '08 - 3/3
Other 3rd Party Apps - 3/4
Talk through technologies and capabilities of Leopard - 3/5
10.5.2 Update - 3/6
QT 8 - 3/7
Java 6 - 3/8
iPhone technologies in Leopard - 3/9
Res independence - 3/10
[3] Beetles on iTunes (at last!). This will lead into the the Music section of the keynote.
Not a whisper - 3/11
[3] iTunes Movie Rentals and iTunes 8 (UPDATE: Looks more likely to be a 7.6 release now.). Talk of the interplay between hardware-software, leading to the introduction of the:
Movie Rentals - 4/12
New iTunes - 5/13
[2] new TV + Apple Remote (in metal and using a similar clickwheel to the nano (you heard it here first)). Not sure were TV is headed, so I will not make too many predictions on this.
New Tv - 6/14
Same old white, plastic remote - 7/15
[5] MacBook Nano (possibly left to the end). It may have a pixel density considerably higher than current machines.
A bit more on this from here:
Quote:
[1] The drive will be a bus powered FW800 Super Drive. And you will pay for it, it won't be included in the box because:
[i] Some may have existing external burners they would rather use.
[ii] It would make the box bigger. Bigger, heavier boxes means more expensive shipping.
[iii] Apple will get to make even more money on each sale from people buying the matching optical drive.
[2] The ultra portable will retail for < $1600 (�1400/�1800) and be called the MacBook Nano.
[3] The MBP will get a facelift and a new keyboard to match the MacBook/new Apple Keyboard
And back to this one:
They gave it a better name, no nano - 7/16
Same pixel density as regular MacBooks - 7/18
No Firewire, let only FW 800 on the Air - 7/19
Drive not included - 8/20
US price - 8/21
UK price - 9/22
EU price - 10/23
New MacBook Pro - 10/24
That seems like enough. I have a sneaky suspicsion we may see a new app, because Apple likes writing Apps and they haven't done a new Applications in a long time (apart from Numbers). Apps are important to Apple because they drive the adoption of hardware.
New App - 10/25
Here's what we may not see:
[1] iPhone SDK, I think this may get a special event at another time.
[2] Any pro products (Mac Pro, Cinema displays) (UPDATE: Well we've already had the Mac Pro, so this is technically a correct prediction � even before the expo even begins!).
No iPhone SDK - 11/26
No pro products - 12/261
So all in all a fairly decent 46% success. As is normally the case I tend to hope for too much new. Some of my predictions I completely stand behind and I think we will see them another day. This year I believe we will see:
- Res Independence UI being exposed to user via System Preferences.
- Java 6 on OS X.
- New Apple remote
- New keyboard on MacBook Pro
- A new application from Apple.
dethmaShine
Apr 20, 05:15 AM
Windows are purely OS for "work enviroment". OSX is for casual stuff.
Cant imagine using freakin Miranda/ICQ/Trillian/Digsby piece of crap with MS Movie Maker and so on.
Same as i cant imagine using Outlook/Excel on Mac OS.
Windows is like Semi, gigantic ugly looking utility vehicle. Mac OS is like convertible ferrari - nice pus.sy magnet for everyday casual use.
:rolleyes:
Cant imagine using freakin Miranda/ICQ/Trillian/Digsby piece of crap with MS Movie Maker and so on.
Same as i cant imagine using Outlook/Excel on Mac OS.
Windows is like Semi, gigantic ugly looking utility vehicle. Mac OS is like convertible ferrari - nice pus.sy magnet for everyday casual use.
:rolleyes:
bigandy
Jan 5, 07:59 PM
I love the idea of a non-spoiling keynote-experience.
BUT
As I can recall, just after the keynote is posted online, there seem to be that much people viewing it that it just becomes worthless to watch. Such as: image hickups, buffering-probs, vid/sound synchronization-probs...
That is if you even can connect to the stream! Most of the times, the feed just wasn't accessible!
Don't you guys have that problem over there in the States? Maybe it is because I'm in the EU? It really sucks, I guarantee..
Last January's MWSF was so annoying - I couldn't pick up a reliable stream until about four days later... :(
BUT
As I can recall, just after the keynote is posted online, there seem to be that much people viewing it that it just becomes worthless to watch. Such as: image hickups, buffering-probs, vid/sound synchronization-probs...
That is if you even can connect to the stream! Most of the times, the feed just wasn't accessible!
Don't you guys have that problem over there in the States? Maybe it is because I'm in the EU? It really sucks, I guarantee..
Last January's MWSF was so annoying - I couldn't pick up a reliable stream until about four days later... :(
macman2790
Oct 3, 01:37 PM
This is my prediction as well. We'll see!
i've been pessimistic about the mbp update for a while now considering how long it would take for santa rosa if they released a new one now.
i've been pessimistic about the mbp update for a while now considering how long it would take for santa rosa if they released a new one now.
AppliedVisual
Oct 17, 02:33 PM
Tape!?! :confused: who on earth uses tape anymore? This is.. 2006. And I was always under the impression that a medium with moving parts would be more prone to failure than one without. Certainly my VHS and cassette library have had their share of tapes being chewed up by the machine or worn out from use.
Tape is still the most reliable, long-term archival media available. Newer tape systems can transfer over 150MB/sec. to and from the tape and store several hundred GB on a single tape. Cost-wise, tape is expensive to buy into, but if you have sufficeint archival needs, it pays for itself over time. Many tape solutions once they reach their ROI point afer a year or two, often are cheaper than HDD storage by half or more. Sounds weird, I know, but that's the way it still is.
Most large data centers covering everything from web storage, insurance databases, financial institutions etc... Have mostly converted over to large-scale redundant servers and storage networks using RAID subsystems. This serves all their immediate storage and backup needs on site and is very reliable if managed properly. But nearly all of them still use an additional tape archival workflow for off-site data storage. There really is no other way right now... Wish there was. Hence the reason tape systems also keep evolving and pretty much match HDD capacity with tape capacity in most cases and transfer rates continue to improve. Comparing tape archival systems to VHS or miniDV tape is not a good comparison, data tapes (or at least the good ones) are very robust and actually very hard to damage. Short of placing them in a magnetic field for a period of time, they're mostly indestructable. They do have moving parts, but hardly any compared to a hard drive.
Using hard drives as an archival solution is a bad idea... Hard drives are not designed for this and can corrupt data over time. Not to mention, the platter system and motors are not designed to sit stationary for years at a time for long-term storage. Optical media isn't too bad, but most photo-sensitive dyes and films used in optical media will decay over time. CD-R media was originally claimed to have a lifespan of 30 to 100 years. Now that it's been around for 30+ years, we're finding out that claim was somewhat exaggerated. Recordable DVD media and HD-DVD and BD are no different, just higher data density on the discs. And also not anywhere near practical for large-scale solutions. Just how do you archive and manage 300 petabytes per year to DVD-R???
For small business type users and home users though, DVD-R media in addition to a good redundant RAID setup probably makes the most sense. Unless they're pushing lots of data doing HD video editing or something like that. In which case, it may still make sense to give tape a consideration as the long-term archive solution. Prosumer level tape archive systems exist and are not that expensive and much more reliable than shelved hard drives and much easier to manage than optical media. The VXA2 format can afford someone an external Firewire tape system w/2 tapes for < $1K. Tapes hold up to 160GB each and factoring in the cost of the drive plus enough tapes to back up about 3 terrabytes of data, the cost becomes cheaper than individual hard drives. So a few terrabytes down the road and you could be wishing you had considered tape if you're still using DVD-R. OTOH, DVD-R is just fine and dandy if a terrabyte or two is all you need. Because you can fit a lot of discs in a shoebox and sharpie pen to label them is pretty cheap too.
External drives are *not* long term archiving solutions. They are useful for storing vast amounts of data that presumably you want to actually access and use (and possibly modify) on a regular basis; also, they are good for the kind of incremental backups you refer to, Time Machine, Retrospect, other 3rd party backup tools can be used for this. But if you have important files you know aren't going to change, while having them on HDD is useful for instant access, that's not where they should be permanently archived -- they should be burned to a permanent medium, preferably more than one copy, and stored in a safe place (or places). If your drive fails and you still need the data to be on that drive, you can then restore from the permanent medium.
Um... I guess I got carried away and didn't mean to elaborate on what you already said. But, er... um.. Yep, I agree.
Tape is still the most reliable, long-term archival media available. Newer tape systems can transfer over 150MB/sec. to and from the tape and store several hundred GB on a single tape. Cost-wise, tape is expensive to buy into, but if you have sufficeint archival needs, it pays for itself over time. Many tape solutions once they reach their ROI point afer a year or two, often are cheaper than HDD storage by half or more. Sounds weird, I know, but that's the way it still is.
Most large data centers covering everything from web storage, insurance databases, financial institutions etc... Have mostly converted over to large-scale redundant servers and storage networks using RAID subsystems. This serves all their immediate storage and backup needs on site and is very reliable if managed properly. But nearly all of them still use an additional tape archival workflow for off-site data storage. There really is no other way right now... Wish there was. Hence the reason tape systems also keep evolving and pretty much match HDD capacity with tape capacity in most cases and transfer rates continue to improve. Comparing tape archival systems to VHS or miniDV tape is not a good comparison, data tapes (or at least the good ones) are very robust and actually very hard to damage. Short of placing them in a magnetic field for a period of time, they're mostly indestructable. They do have moving parts, but hardly any compared to a hard drive.
Using hard drives as an archival solution is a bad idea... Hard drives are not designed for this and can corrupt data over time. Not to mention, the platter system and motors are not designed to sit stationary for years at a time for long-term storage. Optical media isn't too bad, but most photo-sensitive dyes and films used in optical media will decay over time. CD-R media was originally claimed to have a lifespan of 30 to 100 years. Now that it's been around for 30+ years, we're finding out that claim was somewhat exaggerated. Recordable DVD media and HD-DVD and BD are no different, just higher data density on the discs. And also not anywhere near practical for large-scale solutions. Just how do you archive and manage 300 petabytes per year to DVD-R???
For small business type users and home users though, DVD-R media in addition to a good redundant RAID setup probably makes the most sense. Unless they're pushing lots of data doing HD video editing or something like that. In which case, it may still make sense to give tape a consideration as the long-term archive solution. Prosumer level tape archive systems exist and are not that expensive and much more reliable than shelved hard drives and much easier to manage than optical media. The VXA2 format can afford someone an external Firewire tape system w/2 tapes for < $1K. Tapes hold up to 160GB each and factoring in the cost of the drive plus enough tapes to back up about 3 terrabytes of data, the cost becomes cheaper than individual hard drives. So a few terrabytes down the road and you could be wishing you had considered tape if you're still using DVD-R. OTOH, DVD-R is just fine and dandy if a terrabyte or two is all you need. Because you can fit a lot of discs in a shoebox and sharpie pen to label them is pretty cheap too.
External drives are *not* long term archiving solutions. They are useful for storing vast amounts of data that presumably you want to actually access and use (and possibly modify) on a regular basis; also, they are good for the kind of incremental backups you refer to, Time Machine, Retrospect, other 3rd party backup tools can be used for this. But if you have important files you know aren't going to change, while having them on HDD is useful for instant access, that's not where they should be permanently archived -- they should be burned to a permanent medium, preferably more than one copy, and stored in a safe place (or places). If your drive fails and you still need the data to be on that drive, you can then restore from the permanent medium.
Um... I guess I got carried away and didn't mean to elaborate on what you already said. But, er... um.. Yep, I agree.
DoFoT9
Jul 17, 01:27 AM
^^ no thanks nicole. we are right :)
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